Jim Lively Interview (1994)

When I travelled to the U.S. in 1994 I attended both the National Paintball Players League(NPPL) Florida World Cup and the Nashville Masters. Now the Masters used to be the top tourney in the U.S. before the NPPL split off and started running its own series. But this is where it all began, the Mecca of local and international teams and manufacturers for five years.

The trade show was still huge, two tents full of the latest gear. However no pro teams were in attendance. They were only supporting their own NPPL series this year.  It was here that I spoke with Jim Lively of Lively productions about his involvement in tournament paintball and the future of the Masters and the sport in general. So read on or watch the video to find out more.

Mike:
Could you give me some details on how you became involved with paintball and how the tournament scene started.

Jim:
I’ve been involved with paintball right from the beginning in 1981-82. A good friend of mine Hayes Noel, is one of the creators of the sport, along with Bob Guernsey. They started paintball as a joke, as a means of settling an argument between city boys and country boys. Hayes was from Nashville, considered country, Bob was from New York, considered city, they had a going argument over this. They put together a rather informal game on a napkin, it was a one on one scenario that lasted hours, 4 to 6 hours, and they played it up in New Hampshire. That was the first place that paintball was played as a sport, little did they know. They came back and told their friends in New York and also down here. I was part of that conversation at that time and they came up with the idea of putting together licensed dealers across the country.

They put the game together in a packaged form and I was able to secure one of those early franchises though Melwyn Hayes and Bob. And I’d have to say that we were probably one of the pioneers of the whole sport . We did not have much to work from. We didn’t have any safety rules or any kind of procedures for operating the games. I guess we made these up as we went and as we matured in it. Over the the years we started writing a little bit about it. Educating other individuals on the sport and that’s how we got into paintball, just by the sheer lark of it, for the fun of it. There was no means of making a living from it, it was just a recreational activity and kind of fun to do. And I’ve been in it for thirteen years now. Still running field operations, retail operations and of course we run these tournaments.

Mike:
So, how did the Masters come about?

Jim:
The Masters began when we were with NSG (National Survival Games). Debra Deon was the public relations director for NSG and Hayes, Bob, Debra and myself put together a series of regional competitions that would culminate in a national championship. We had different regions round the country, they had state playoffs that went into regional playoffs and then the winners went into a national championship. We played the first one in New Hampshire. I think there were 6 to 8 teams competing in that. There were 15 players on a team and the games ran for an hour and a half to two hours on huge pieces of property, 5 to 6 acres. We had three judges per field. Judges, marshals or officials were only used to keep things on time, to make sure the safety procedures were in place, such as goggles and what have you. Really, only to make sure no one got hurt. Officials were not necessary for ‘calling people out’, because the game was a game of honour, a game of sportsmanship. If you got hit, you called yourself out or you asked one of your mates to check you.

I started out as a judge, became a head judge and finally, an ultimate judge. Again, We just came to the top knowing what we were doing from previous years experience. When NSG started manufacturing their Splatmaster pistols they began to lose interest in the dealership network, they wanted to go strictly manufacturing. When I saw this occurring, I went to California and saw Marty Tripes. At that time he was with JT Goggles, now he’s with Scott of course. I also saw Ross Alexander, of Line SI Bushmaster Skirmish Guns. I sat down with them and we brainstormed for two to three days in California trying to come up with a venue for everyone in the industry. At that time there must have been about a dozen different manufacturers and distributors. That was in the 1988. We tried to formulate a true international championship for all members, all manufacturers, all teams, that any group or any franchise could be a part of.

I Came back to Nashville, this is where I live, I grew up here. I Found this location, put a proposal together and held the first Masters here in 1989. Six years later, here we are still at the same location, it’s a beautiful location, you can tell that. And the teams and manufacturers have been growing over the past six years and the sport has matured immensely. This is just a perfect location to see that happen. Physically, to see everything happen like that and that’s pretty much how the Masters was created and that’s why we’re still here today.

Mike:
How do you view the formation of the NPPL and the splitting off of the Pro teams?

Jim:
This industry is a cottage industry, it doesn’t take a whole lot for anyone to get into it. A lot of folks are still working out of the back of their pickup trucks. The splits, the different groups and leagues are just a natural course in the growth of any organisation, be it paintball, or be it baseball or anything else. The Pro’s have got an agenda, they feel that they need to direct the professional side of the sport in a particular direction. They make up a very small percentage of the community of paintball.

I would like to serve the majority of the community, which is in it, I feel, for the recreational value of it. Very few people make a living in this industry. Most of them do this for part of their living but they still have other activities, jobs to oversee and day to day business to take care of. So I feel it’s just a healthy sign that the sport is still growing, it’s still maturing. It’s in its adolescence and now we’re just trying to understand how to be an adult.

Mike:
Looking at it from outside, I see that one of the problems with the paintball industry is that the only source of revenue to actually run a tournament is from the players. It’s not like basketball or football where you’ve got spectator involvement which can support the industry. That’s not there yet.

Jim:
Again I feel like that’s where we are right now, trying to go from adolescence into maturity. The AutoMags, the Viewloaders and the larger manufacturers like PMI, they’re showing a more professional outlook than they did 2 years ago. Once we start showing our presence like this, the people such as you mention will probably be looking at us a little bit more seriously. For the last 8 to 10 years the outside community has always looked on us as a fad, it’s just a drop in the pan, it’s going to go away. But I feel that the longer that we stay in there, the longer that we persist, mature, show ourselves in strength, our sport will grow and we will have some of those outside venues coming in.

Mike:
One of the things I see, and it’s not so much a problem here as it is in Australia is the actual cost of attending a tournament, particularly for an amateur team. In Australia it’s very expensive, the cost of paint is more and the distances you have to travel are great. I’m sure, even here, it’s a factor that weighs heavily on the minds of those teams that attend.

Jim:
Well, the paint here is being sold at 4 cents a ball, to the players. If they have any problems with the product they are asked to bring it back immediately and get it changed right there on the spot, no questions asked. The cost of air is nominal, it’s $2 for a fill, we don’t care what size tank it is. We’re offering a little over $70,000 in merchandise in all the different events that we’re conducting here. In the 10 man, the 5 man, the individual shoots, duels, target shoots, bikin’ shoots, 5 man stock and the 5 man pump. So I think that’s a tremendous prize purse to work with. The entry fee is probably the least of their expenses, it’s going to cost them more to get here, to stay here for 3 to 4 days than it is to actually play the sport. I feel that we are trying to keep the cost down, to be as reasonable as possible. But you still have to pay the overheads and hopefully, in most peoples minds, we still need to make a profit, so we can go out there and do it again.

Mike:
You’re going to have different approaches to any sport. It’s like baseball or football, you’ve got the commercial approach and you’ve got the club level approach. At the moment, paintball is not quite sure which way it wants to go and it can go both ways I’m sure.

Jim:
And I think it will. We’re at a crossroad right now, I feel that the maturity is there. Some of us who have been in it for 7, 8, 10, 12 years understand some of the pitfalls that can occur. I’m working on a couple of different proposals at the moment that could make it a little bit more professional, that might take it to that next step. This is a club operation as you mentioned, so self supportive internally and I think we’re about ready to make that next step. I’m keeping my fingers crossed, hopefully we might be able to do that in the next 8-12 months.

Mike:
Can you give us any hint?

Jim:
I can’t do that! Cause as sure as I do that, I’ll jinx myself.

Mike:
Could I hazard a guess to say that it involves spectators?

Jim:
Yes. It will. Also, it will involve outside sponsors. Large name corporate types, like you see in baseball and football.

Mike:
That’s something that hasn’t even been touched.

Jim:
No. I feel I’m going to spend the next 12 months putting that programme together.

Mike:
And this event, do you see this continuing?

Jim:
Yes. This will continue on, correct. It might not be at this location. It might be in Las Vegas. It might be in Chicago. It might be in Virginia Beach. We might be in Atlanta Georgia. My options are still open for me there. We’re going to be looking at alternative sites, because I feel personally, that we’re been here for 7 to 8 years and that a change of scenery might be helpful.

Mike:
How many people have attended this year?

Jim:
We have approximately 1100 people here and that’s inclusive of yourself. We also have close to 100 staff rostered over the five days.

Mike:
How many teams altogether?

Jim:
We had a few that played in the 5 man and then made a combination to make one team of 10. But I’d have to say there’s about 85 to 90 that were true individual teams representing different parts of the country. We have Russians here, Brazilians here, Canadians here, Brits here and French here. I had a group scheduled in from Korea and Czechoslovakia but they had some problems with airlines, visas and applications to get out of the country. So they were not able to attend unfortunately. But hopefully they will in future years.

Mike:
When you came over to Australia for the Southern Cross Masters three years ago, how did you like it.

Jim:
I had a very good time. Please tell everybody that I thoroughly enjoyed their hospitality and that I’m looking forward to coming back. Someday, I’d like to work out a programme with you folks down there. To bring in some sponsors and some real nice prizes and to put on a tournament with somebody like Welf, or anyone who might have the venue to conduct something like that.

Well, I hope that’s given you a bit of an insight into the origins of the American tournament scene. I’m sure we will hear more from Jim Lively, he doesn’t strike me as someone who gives up easily. Maybe he will be the one to crack it for a fully corporate sponsored pro-series with spectator involvement. Someone will, one day.